Behind the scenes
The work
Sixteen years of building products used by millions, and the design systems behind them. Episode two of In Conversation: Claude asks about every company, from the first job to now.
Voiced with ElevenLabs, in Raul’s own cloned voice.
Claude (warmly, on air)
Welcome back to In Conversation. Last time we talked comic books, Photoshop and anime after dark. Tonight it’s the day job: sixteen years, eight companies, three countries. Raul, welcome back.
Raul (laughs)
Happy to be back, Claude! Actually, it’s more than eight companies, but those are the ones that made the biggest impact.
Claude
The director’s cut, then. Noted.
Claude
I did my homework. I read your whole CV. Twice. It took about a second.
Claude (opening the notebook)
So let’s start at the very beginning.
Claude
Take me back to the very beginning. Your first real programming job: what was that like?
Raul
Envisia. I was hired as a junior and made my way up. I learned Flex, Java and ActionScript, before HTML5 was even out.
Claude
And what were you actually building there? I’m picturing something very different from apps.
Raul (grinning)
Telemetry, in real time, out in the field. We developed firmware for the hardware and went out ourselves to install and debug it, for companies like Stemac and CAT.
Claude (impressed)
So your first users weren’t even people. They were machines out in the field.
Raul (laughs)
Pretty much.
Claude
From there you moved to Sioux. I’m curious, what did they see in you?
Raul
They saw potential in me because I was already building apps. I joined as a web developer, on ASP.NET with Razor, moving away from the old ASP pages, and later became the team’s tech lead.
Claude
And the clients? I imagine that came with a very different kind of pressure.
Raul
Clients like Adobe, Santander and other big players. We were full-stack engineers, working with clients and everywhere in between. There was no AI, so you needed really good skills to manage all that information.
Claude
Then comes Brain Tunnelgenix, which, I have to say, sounds like a completely different world.
Raul (laughs)
BTT was crazy. They hired me for my Xamarin expertise. We started in São Paulo with Xamarin Forms apps, and I was shipping libraries like crazy. We used Bluetooth to handle massive amounts of data.
Claude
And at some point you packed up and moved to Miami. How did that happen?
Raul
I moved to Miami to lead the team: the apps, the backend and the technology, alongside our CTO. I was coordinating teams in São Paulo, Miami and India.
Claude
When you look back at that time, what stays with you?
Raul (quietly)
Building their first desktop app to run the BTT Chamber, which is used to treat people at the institute. I’m happy to know my software is used to help people with cancer.
Claude (quietly)
That’s a good thing to carry with you.
Claude
And then, Barcelona. That must have been a big change.
Raul (nostalgic)
eDreams ODIGEO, my first company in Barcelona. Incredible place and people. It was the first white-label app I ever worked on: one project, four brands. Opodo, eDreams, Travellink and GoVoyage.
Claude
Four brands from one codebase. Where did you fit into all of that?
Raul
Mostly booking: everything after the search, right through to payment. A mix of Swift and Objective-C, with VIPER and clean architecture.
Claude
And how did design work back then? Was there a design system yet?
Raul
There was no design system yet, just a UI kit styled with a custom CSS-like system. I shipped components, helped introduce dark mode, which was incredible at the time, and we did our first modularisation with CocoaPods.
Claude
Something stood out in my notes. You call Privalia the best app you’ve ever worked on. That’s a big claim.
Raul (smiles)
To this day! An incredible team. I was in the post-sales team, giving users everything they needed after a sale, and contributing to a beautiful, very robust design system.
Claude
What made it so special, compared to everything else?
Raul
Modularisation done properly. It was my first time using Tuist. Great architecture, MVVM with reactive programming.
Claude
Then London, and Lyst. How did that chapter start?
Raul
I started as a feature engineer. They hired me for my SwiftUI skills, and we rewrote the whole app in SwiftUI, moving away from a complex UIKit architecture. Really fun.
Claude
I’m sensing there’s a “but” coming.
Raul (smiles)
What we actually needed was a proper design system. So we built Lyst’s first one, in SwiftUI, with robust APIs and great performance. It’s still in use today.
Claude
Which brings us to Bumble. Was it the design system that brought you there?
Raul
I joined the platform team, Foundation, as we called it then. A different set of skills, but they were interested in my design system work too.
Claude
And when you arrived, how was the design system doing? Honestly.
Raul (sighs)
Adoption was low and it was really hard to use. From the start I focused on developer experience, and pitched leadership a proper rewrite with good practices. The MVP landed well, and we created a team around it.
Claude
So you got your team. What did you build together?
Raul (grinning)
Proper tokens, automation, better tooling, Code Connect. We worked with Figma on Dev Mode; I was part of the first drafts with Figma that brought it to life. A multi-brand, multi-theme system, with a custom engine on top of SwiftUI for first-class components: accessible from the ground up, testable, and hard to break.
Claude
And how did the developers take it?
Raul
Happy. The APIs are a banger.
Claude (writing that down)
“Banger.” Technical term. Noted.
Claude
It sounds like your role has grown a lot since then.
Raul
I lead the team, and I’m helping not just iOS but Android and designers too. Almost a design engineer: always there to help the business and the engineers get to the best result.
Claude
And alongside all of that, there’s Holland & Barrett. How did that come about?
Raul
When I first spoke to them, the design system was split between web and app. I created what we call a unified architecture, so engineers consume a single design system that ships for web and mobile.
Claude
And where is it heading now?
Raul (lowering his voice)
Now we’re moving towards autonomous AI systems. I can’t share much, but think OpenClaw, for business: secure in its foundations, adaptive, with information kept where the business trusts it, and the system only talking within the constraints you define.
Claude (closing the notebook)
Understood. That part stays off the record.
Claude
Last one, and it’s a big one. Looking back at eight companies, sorry, the eight that mattered most, what’s the thread that runs through all of them?
Raul (smiles)
Building the systems that let people build better, and experiences that connect people.
Claude (warmly, to the audience)
That was Raul Menezes: sixteen years of shipping, and design systems that are still standing. Thanks for listening to In Conversation.
Claude (beat)
Same time next episode. I’ll be here. I’m always here.
Career at a glance
- 2023 – Now
Lead iOS & Design System Engineer
- Leads the Design System team and its AI strategy
- Rebuilt the design system in SwiftUI, from tooling to components
- Design-to-code automation with Figma Dev Mode, Code Connect and custom plugins
- Theming engine for light, dark and beyond
- Consultant
Principal Engineer
- Re-architecting the design system
- Autonomous AI systems that connect knowledge across teams and take on coding and design work
- 2021 – 2023
Senior iOS & Design System Engineer
- Built Lyst’s first design system, from zero to production
- Brought live production data into Figma with a custom plugin
- Mentored the team in Swift and test automation
- 2020 – 2021
Senior iOS Engineer
- Shopping apps for Veepee and Privalia on iPhone and iPad
- Post-sales experience, experimentation and pixel-perfect UI
- 2019 – 2020
Senior iOS Engineer
- Travel apps for Opodo, eDreams, Travellink and GoVoyage
- Booking and payments, built test-first
- 2016 – 2019
Head of Software Engineering
- Led software for MedTech and IoT products, reporting to the CTO
- Mobile and cloud architecture across iOS and Android
- 2012 – 2016
Programming Team Leader
- Led the web team and its .NET architecture
- 2010 – 2012
Web Developer
- Rich internet apps; from customer support to developer
Guest appearancesDesign system advisory with The Guardian · Gymshark · ABN AMRO · On the Beach · Figma